31 replies to this topic

[brokenportal]

Amazing people are slowly sliding down a slope and falling off a cliff, obliterating
from this land of wonder by the minute and we're standing in line with them.

We have to keep the fire beneath us. We need to keep the sparks shooting from us. The situation
calls for urgency on the grandest scale. We dont have the luxury of time. We
awakened are few and far between and its up to us to shake the rest of the world from
their trance.

If you have the life extension spark in you, if you are free of the pro aging trance
then you have to pick up arms and head for the front lines. We need you there, we need you
there badly and now. The grim reaper has a firm hold on the lines and the massacre is
appalling. I know that nobody wants to abandon their lives, and they dont need to, but
a sense of proportion needs to be had. We need to win this war on aging. The universe is at stake.

Do you want oblivion or the ability to help pioneer the universe?

Do you want the life youve grown used to or do you want the ability to help pioneer the
universe?

"The most important thing is this: To be able at any moment to
sacrifice what we are for what we could become." - Charles Dubois

We need more of these kinds of nootropics, we need more minds fighting, we need to
organize for peak performance to make an all out blitz. Lets get that bullet list done
so we can organize these ideas, like making more nootropic like advertisements (ie, line 1-C.) for
the indefinite healthy life extension cause. So we can build a longevity communities network,
so we can get more programmers interested in helping optimize the forums,
to get the support we need to get the forums running at peak efficiency, to run successful fund raisers
and get the support for MFURI, to rake in the folders for f@h, to lobby our congressmen, to get
more people touring schools and universities (line 26) and retirement homes
giving life extension speeches, to get it covered in the news more (line 4.2), to fill the mprize
with funds, to set up more local area chapters for the public and schools.

There are a million projects, a million soldiers. Lets rile things up and see what we can
do. We are primed for the battle and its time for the charge. Aubrey thinks we can make
Longevity Escape Velocity in 20 years. Lets not wait twenty years to make that charge. We dont
have that luxury.

If a persons not in it to win it, then from what I can figure they must be prepared to lose.

"Put in some time to help with life extension now, or put in time helping with your
family and friends funerals later. Its your choice." -E.D.

Now I know that the people around Imminst are life extensionists to the core. Whether
youve realized it or not, by coming out of the pro aging trance youve defaulted yourself
to a general in this war. We are like one eyed generals in the land of the blind. The world
depends on your vision to rally them.

Watch the first video in this topic here. Its a pro aging trancists plea to you.

Edited by brokenportal, 05 December 2008 - 11:18 PM.

[cyborgdreamer]

Wow, it's great to see someone so passionate about life extension. Where did you get that metaphor about the one eyed generals? Did you make it up?

[brokenportal]

I made of version of it based from the book, "In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king," and the book took it from an old cliche. So what are your sentiments about its concepts, like for example your calling as a general?

Edited by brokenportal, 05 December 2008 - 04:55 PM.

[Heliotrope]

Wow, it's great to see someone so passionate about life extension. Where did you get that metaphor about the one eyed generals? Did you make it up?

i've heard of the metaphor many times. I agree brokenportal is among the most passionate of imminsters, a lifetime member and all.

i'm personally a bit scared of one-eyed generals and kings. haha.

cyborgdreamer, i assume you're into computer science etc too, and the popular film "Minority Report" (spielberg, Tom Cruise et al) deals w/ technolgy.

There's a scene that's stuck w/ me for yrs, where Cruise jogs up to a street drug-dealer selling Neuroin , and the dealer is blind, but his last words to Tom Cruise character is" In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king!"

[brokenportal]

i'm personally a bit scared of one-eyed generals and kings. haha.

Why? You are one. Im a hell of a lot more scared of the Grim Reaper and aging than I am of the Generals and soldiers working to defeat it.

[cyborgdreamer]

I made of version of it based from the book, "In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king," and the book took it from an old cliche. So what are your sentiments about its concepts, life for example your calling as a general?

You'll probably argue, but I'm not much of a leader. Posting on an internet forum is one thing, but whenever I talk about immortalism to my deathist friends in real life, I get too emotional.

[brokenportal]

I made of version of it based from the book, "In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king," and the book took it from an old cliche. So what are your sentiments about its concepts, life for example your calling as a general?

You'll probably argue, but I'm not much of a leader. Posting on an internet forum is one thing, but whenever I talk about immortalism to my deathist friends in real life, I get too emotional.

Emotional in what way? Its usually good to get emotional when spreading the meme of important causes. If your having trouble honing your meme in then we have a lot of projects under way to help people with that. Let me know if your interested. Not to mention you dont have to meme face to face, you can do it through memeing on the net and or helping with projects like flyers, campaign bus, commericials etc.. Like all the ones in here and plenty others. If your not in the pro aging trance then you are already a leader. Youve been given a calling. The people in the pro aging trance depend on your vision. Whether you put in one minute a week talking to people on the net or to projects, or 15 hours a day, it will all help. The world needs you, badly.

[cyborgdreamer]

I made of version of it based from the book, "In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king," and the book took it from an old cliche. So what are your sentiments about its concepts, life for example your calling as a general?

You'll probably argue, but I'm not much of a leader. Posting on an internet forum is one thing, but whenever I talk about immortalism to my deathist friends in real life, I get too emotional.

Emotional in what way? Its usually good to get emotional when spreading the meme of important causes. If your having trouble honing your meme in then we have a lot of projects under way to help people with that. Let me know if your interested.

Not emotional in a good way. It makes me really angry and sad when people I care about say that they think I should die. One time I actually cried.

Not to mention you dont have to meme face to face, you can do it through memeing on the net and or helping with projects like flyers, campaign bus, commericials etc.. Like all the ones in here and plenty others. If your not in the pro aging trance then you are already a leader. Youve been given a calling. The people in the pro aging trance depend on your vision. Whether you put in one minute a week talking to people on the net or to projects, or 15 hours a day, it will all help. The world needs you, badly.

I do want to help but since I'm not much of a people person, I'd be more comfortable studying biology and becoming a researcher. Also, I wonder how many people are really 'pro-aging trancists' and how many genuinely want to die. I don't know if we should try to lead people who don't want to be lead.

[brokenportal]

Not emotional in a good way. It makes me really angry and sad when people I care about say that they think I should die. One time I actually cried.

I know, Ive been there, its terrible, its appalling really, abhorable. I and many others around here have figured out techniques that get around that, that work. Get with us on that, theres a thread on it here. We are also starting various projects around that concept like a quiz to help train people to combat the pro aging trance effectively, a live training course against trancists in the imminst chat and a few others. If you want to help then come up with ideas and add to lines 36, 37 and 38 of this list. (they will be merged soon)

I do want to help but since I'm not much of a people person, I'd be more comfortable studying biology and becoming a researcher. Also, I wonder how many people are really 'pro-aging trancists' and how many genuinely want to die. I don't know if we should try to lead people who don't want to be lead.

If you think you can do the research then lifes speed to you. I salute you. I tried becoming a researcher too. I signed on for clinical laboratory science but quickly found by the beginning of the second year that I cant do the math. If you can then thanks a million for taking that path. If you cant or want to do both then consider helping with the marketing too. One researcher can do x amount of research, but one marketer can help inspire an indefinite amount of researchers. At this stage in the game I tend to think that exposure is a lot more important. This reminds me of this blog, "you are Aubrey deGrey".

Also, like Im elluding too, who isnt a people person on the internet? The internet brings out our minds with out the distractions. I can tell you how many want to be led, all of them, if they dont know it yet its because we havent persuaded them. Besides, even if there are a ton of people out there that genuinely want to die, there are still millions and millions and millions of people out there that dont and are ready and willing to come out of the pro aging trance if we would just so much as light the way for them. We need those people to help us.

[Zoroaster]

I appreciate the passion and eloquence of this post. There are obviously a lot of us that feel the same way. Many of us would love to contribute to the cause but just don't know how to do it. I think we need to have more discussion about ways that we can advance the science of life extension. Talking to our friends and getting others on board is a tough sell as many of us know, and I'm not sure its the best expenditure of our time in the long run. I don't think many people are resistive because they want to die, or they've been brainwashed or something, but because they don't really think there's a viable alternative. So they find ways to come to terms with death. I don't think we can stop that process until we can demonstrate that significant life extension and overcoming death are real possibilities. As it stands now, our case is honestly kind of weak. I'm not even sure we'll defeat death in my lifetime. So how can I convince others? I think the best way we can help our cause is by finding ways to fund the research that will eventually cure aging. If we can help fund some significant, well publicized breakthroughs then all those conversations will suddenly get a lot easier. And I think everyone on earth will become a life-extensionist when that little pill is finally on the market!

We should raise money by running a well-organized 5k, or we could sponsor concerts, or at least actively solicit donations through our website. We should find like-minded organizations across america and combine into a cohesive group to make it easier to raise money. Then we can start lobbying universities to research those kinds of issues or advertise research prizes for teams that reach certain goals on the path to life extension. If we want to get anywhere we have to be less like a rag-tag band of armchair biochemists and more like the American Heart Association. Anyway, that's my two cents.

[Prometheus]

Rest easy. Those with the skills are at work. Pacing will avail nought.

[Prometheus]

Those with the skills are at work.

... playing foosball.

[brokenportal]

You know, it was really not very clear to me at all, but now Im beginning to understand why people arent helping with life extension exposure projects more.

Many of us would love to contribute to the cause but just don't know how to do it.

I remember a few years ago when I wanted to help but didnt know what to do either. Some of us are working out ways to do that. Not just a few, but a variety. Theres one to fit most everybodies skill set and or time window, and if there isnt let us know and we'll create some. There are meetings for some good simple ways to jump right in now. All you have to do is attend, you dont even have to write anything. The support will help motivate other people to attend them too. Then there are all the big and small life extension projects here. Here is a suggested formula for getting one started.

I think we need to have more discussion about ways that we can advance the science of life extension.

MFURI is relatively new, but its picking up and is a great way to get more discussion about the science going. People have been talking about various ways to bring the science section back to life. Lazarus goes over some ways here. Mind was talking about making a page listing imminst MFURI volunteers. Some combination of all of that should get that section going more. I see that as a bonus though. MF is already talking about the science and has that all covered. Getting them expsosure for that I think is the best focus, I could be wrong though, Im just saying.

Talking to our friends and getting others on board is a tough sell as many of us know, and I'm not sure its the best expenditure of our time in the long run.

We need people that think its a tough sell to discuss with us at topics like this. We can give you strategies for making it an easier sell that you can use right away. I remember what it was like when it was a hard sell too, try these tactics. Its a whole new world when pro aging trance stops looking so much like a giant impenetrable wall that will keep us out of existence.

This is the best expenditure of our time. There are millions and millions and millions of people out there ready and willing to come out of the pro aging trance if we would only light the way for them. We need their help. One person can do one years worth of work in one year but one billion people can do one billion years worth of work in one year.

I don't think many people are resistive because they want to die, or they've been brainwashed or something, but because they don't really think there's a viable alternative.

Exactly, and we can and will show them the viable alternative. I mean, I can imagine civil rights supporters wondering why there are only a couple hundred people showing up for the million man march or I can image them helping generate the exposure to alert the people of it so they can come. If we build, yes the cliche is true, they will come. I promise you that. The exposure that we do have has got people steady streaming in every day. We put out a commercial or a campaign bus or yard signs or something and this place will explode with activity.

I don't think many people are resistive because they want to die, or they've been brainwashed or something, but because they don't really think there's a viable alternative. So they find ways to come to terms with death. I don't think we can stop that process until we can demonstrate that significant life extension and overcoming death are real possibilities. As it stands now, our case is honestly kind of weak. I'm not even sure we'll defeat death in my lifetime. So how can I convince others?

Thanks for all this feedback, this is exactly the kind of thing Im looking for. Its really very invaluable. You indicate to me that you dont really know about certain concepts that have been springing up and so we'll be sure to include things like the "Longevity Escape Velocity" (video) and the viability of all the SENS strategies and the concept of expontially increasing technological advancement that is helping facilitate it. I mean, our capabilities will be vastly advanced in even just 5 years, and only exponentially grow from there. Not to mention the power in the heart and soul of a people to accomplish something.

I think the best way we can help our cause is by finding ways to fund the research that will eventually cure aging. If we can help fund some significant, well publicized breakthroughs then all those conversations will suddenly get a lot easier. And I think everyone on earth will become a life-extensionist when that little pill is finally on the market!

The mprize is one of the big things that all these projects are at least indirectly helping to gain awareness, action and funding for. For example lines 5 and 28 in this google doc. If you want to add ideas to that outline then let us know.

We should raise money by running a well-organized 5k, or we could sponsor concerts, or at least actively solicit donations through our website. We should find like-minded organizations across america and combine into a cohesive group to make it easier to raise money. Then we can start lobbying universities to research those kinds of issues or advertise research prizes for teams that reach certain goals on the path to life extension. If we want to get anywhere we have to be less like a rag-tag band of armchair biochemists and more like the American Heart Association. Anyway, that's my two cents.

Good ideas. Start an outline for a well organized 5k and or join in on the one on line three in that google doc. or start it anywhere, but I recommend the doc because I can help you gain support for it and keep it from getting buried and forgotten. As for lobbying universities, we are doing that through MFURI, join that team by taking this short training course.

So please join in on any of these opportunities in any way you can as soon as possible. Even if its for just one minute a week, sign up somewhere. It will help grow a trend that is building in momentum.

Edited by brokenportal, 05 December 2008 - 07:38 PM.

[brokenportal]

Rest easy. Those with the skills are at work. Pacing will avail nought.

This is definently not going to get done if everybody waits around for every body else to do something. We are all the change that makes the difference.

Besides, if you know of another organization that is built more exclusively for generating indefinite healthy life extension exposure then let me know.

[thughes]

Personally, I'll avoid anything that has me dealing directly with people like the plague. I will leave that to other more suitable people.

I like the small target things, as a way to get people involved without too much time commitment, plus build up some enthusiasm and momentum.

Like for instance, a "dig me" forum to post things we find on the internet that have relevance and should be propagated. A "take action" blog with a handful of maintainers that regularly scanned the internet would be much better IMO and could be expanded to any number of small ways to get people to take action. (I would be willing to help set up and maintain something like that, although I won't have much time till January).

Combined small action like this has been quite successful at Pharyngula, it could work similarly here if people were willing. Eg. find polls, things to read, and get everyone to go dig them, answer them, etc. Also a good way to alert the more eloquent posters that some negative things need addressing on another web site. Just the appearance that things are getting done will help build momentum. Could use the same blog to advertise major pieces of progress from the teams too, and to advertize really well written posts on other anti-aging blogs.

Could call it the "Imminst Action" blog and link it from the forums and front page. I do have a server and business connection and could host something but I suspect I can't afford the increased bandwidth... I'd have to check. Imminst can probably host such a thing itself though. Hmm would need a catchier name, like Immaction!

Oh no, now I'm getting enthusiastic 8( Back to the closet with me,

( its also a good way to draw attention to what we think are the best scientific and philosophical discussions on the forums, but such a thing could not be simply "a blog" under the "blogs" link: it would need to stand out. It could have an RSS feed... my latest kick... and an associated mailing list for action alerts too, whee )

- Tracy

Edited by thughes, 05 December 2008 - 08:00 PM.

[brokenportal]

Now your talkin, your enthusiasm is infectious. By directly with people do you mean like in real life or in small groups and meeting on the internet also?

Dig and twine and blogs is a great project to build on more.

Ill add it to the google doc list of life extension expediting projects right now, line 39. A lot of people are into that and a coordinated effort could really make an impact. ....Ok, I just added it. Its a loose outline, but it gets the ball rolling. If you want to work with that outline then let me know and Ill add you as an editor to the doc. Then when more people come around that are interested in that kind of project, they, or you can use a suggested set of steps for starting up a project like that with this basic formula.

Im not to sure what you mean with blog server stuff and bandwidth but outline its basics in that google doc line 39 and it will take shape. You dont have to keep up with it, you can add just once if you want, and then if you feel like it when you get inspired, Other people will be able to build on to what you add. Thats the beauty of the interactive projects list in the doc and wiki. Anyways, with bandwidth, you could even write in an outline for asking imminst to pay for the extra bandwidth, ad it to the neccessary part and then we or you or me or somebody else can make a proposal or not, after ruminating on it for a bit and building on the rest of the outline.

Rss, stand out buttons, all that, work the possibilities in there, and add to parts that are already solid, If youve got insight on that kind of stuff you can really help that grow.


Thanks a million, hopefully a million years,
-Eric

Personally, I'll avoid anything that has me dealing directly with people like the plague. I will leave that to other more suitable people.

I like the small target things, as a way to get people involved without too much time commitment, plus build up some enthusiasm and momentum.

Like for instance, a "dig me" forum to post things we find on the internet that have relevance and should be propagated. A "take action" blog with a handful of maintainers that regularly scanned the internet would be much better IMO and could be expanded to any number of small ways to get people to take action. (I would be willing to help set up and maintain something like that, although I won't have much time till January).

Combined small action like this has been quite successful at Pharyngula, it could work similarly here if people were willing. Eg. find polls, things to read, and get everyone to go dig them, answer them, etc. Also a good way to alert the more eloquent posters that some negative things need addressing on another web site. Just the appearance that things are getting done will help build momentum. Could use the same blog to advertise major pieces of progress from the teams too, and to advertize really well written posts on other anti-aging blogs.

Could call it the "Imminst Action" blog and link it from the forums and front page. I do have a server and business connection and could host something but I suspect I can't afford the increased bandwidth... I'd have to check. Imminst can probably host such a thing itself though. Hmm would need a catchier name, like Immaction!

Oh no, now I'm getting enthusiastic 8( Back to the closet with me,

( its also a good way to draw attention to what we think are the best scientific and philosophical discussions on the forums, but such a thing could not be simply "a blog" under the "blogs" link: it would need to stand out. It could have an RSS feed... my latest kick... and an associated mailing list for action alerts too, whee )

- Tracy

Edited by brokenportal, 05 December 2008 - 09:12 PM.

[Vgamer1]

Yes, we are one-eyed generals among the blind. But all the blind have to do in order to see is open their eyes. All we have to do is get them to take a peek at what there is to see. It may be a bit hard to keep one's eyes open at first. After all, the truth is quite shocking. But with encouragement and support we can get them to open their eyes again, this time wider and for longer. Eventually they'll have one eye open just like us and you know what will happen? -- We'll have another general that can help more blind soldiers see.

Awesome post brokenportal. It's people like you that give everyone here hope and inspiration. I pray people heed the call and begin to fight the war that has been a long time coming. Our army is just starting to get organized so the Grim Reaper better watch out. We're coming for him.

Edited by Vgamer1, 05 December 2008 - 10:15 PM.

[brokenportal]

Yes, we are one-eyed generals among the blind. But all the blind have to do in order to see is open their eyes. All we have to do is get them to take a peek at what there is to see. It may be a bit hard to keep one's eyes open at first.

Your getting close on the peek analogy and your on to something with keeping it open at first. People are in their comfort zones, and rather than get them to peek, we have to get them to step out of that comfort zone and then like you said, it will be hard to keep them their at first, but keeping them just long enough will allow them to get comfortable with that spot and expand their zone. One way to get them to step out of their comfort zones is to make them uncomfortable in them. Any suggestions on doing that?

We should get an outline for a project like that going, getting life extensionists out of their comfort zones and into the trenches. Ill start one on line 40 of the google doc right now. Its either fight in the trenches now or rot in them later. Theres one good example of something like that going here, a calandar that spans a life time with x's marking off the months youve lived and showing how much is left.
Please give your feedback on that topic to keep the ideas around it flowing and bumping into the active stream of topics around here.

Can you help me figure out how to take a screen shot of the whole scroll of that calander all at once so I can post it places?

Edited by brokenportal, 07 December 2008 - 06:10 AM.

[Reno]

First time someone has invited me to a thread at this forum for something other than donations.

I'll tell you what. If i really wanted change I would start off with the simple most efficient way to enact change. I would send a letter to my congressmen and start a petition. If enough people sign a petition for something and send letters to their congressmen they can create policy shifts. It happened in California with Stem cell research. The populace wanted change and got the state government to push money in the form of business and research grants towards it.

Create a generic letter template and post it here in pdf or doc. Get volunteers to download it edit it and send it to their local congressmen. You need a goal in the letter. It can't be just I want research for life extension. It has to be something specific. State the goal as requesting that you think there should be more grants and research towards advanced stemcell or molecular nanotechnology research here in my state. If you post it and a list of state legislators then I'm sure people will send it. If enough people send it then change will get made.

Edit: A good supporting argument would be to say that the potential benefits reaped from medical research in both fields create the promise for cheaper state costs for medical care. Both fields promise treatments for cancer and heart disease.

Edited by bobscrachy, 08 December 2008 - 02:19 AM.

[JLL]

Remember that the government's money has been taken from the people by force; so when you ask politicians to direct funds to something important to you, you're saying it's okay to force people to pay for something important to you.

I really feel taking the political route is a terrible way of reaching immortality. Nothing good has ever come out of the government. Everything that is truly good is produced by individuals acting voluntarily.

[Reno]

Remember that the government's money has been taken from the people by force; so when you ask politicians to direct funds to something important to you, you're saying it's okay to force people to pay for something important to you.

I really feel taking the political route is a terrible way of reaching immortality. Nothing good has ever come out of the government. Everything that is truly good is produced by individuals acting voluntarily.

How about things like the polio vaccine, social security, or maybe even the roads you drive on or the defeat of fascism. Anarchism is for hippies.

If "immortality" through nanotech or any other means is to come to reality, it will happen because the government funded it.

Edited by bobscrachy, 08 December 2008 - 02:51 PM.

[brokenportal]

Remember that the government's money has been taken from the people by force; so when you ask politicians to direct funds to something important to you, you're saying it's okay to force people to pay for something important to you.

I really feel taking the political route is a terrible way of reaching immortality. Nothing good has ever come out of the government. Everything that is truly good is produced by individuals acting voluntarily.

If theres any time for the robbin hood complex then this is it. If we have to take from the trancists to give to the indefinite healthy life extensionists then that is fine. The trancists will thank us later. For those that dont thank us later, dont worry about that. I mean, Im sure there were crazy people that tauted that we ought not cure things like polio too but that is not a concern.

Politically may or may not be the best route, but it is a route, and there are plenty people to fill up the Higgins boats to take up each route.

[brokenportal]

First time someone has invited me to a thread at this forum for something other than donations.

I'll tell you what. If i really wanted change I would start off with the simple most efficient way to enact change. I would send a letter to my congressmen and start a petition. If enough people sign a petition for something and send letters to their congressmen they can create policy shifts. It happened in California with Stem cell research. The populace wanted change and got the state government to push money in the form of business and research grants towards it.

Create a generic letter template and post it here in pdf or doc. Get volunteers to download it edit it and send it to their local congressmen. You need a goal in the letter. It can't be just I want research for life extension. It has to be something specific. State the goal as requesting that you think there should be more grants and research towards advanced stemcell or molecular nanotechnology research here in my state. If you post it and a list of state legislators then I'm sure people will send it. If enough people send it then change will get made.

Edit: A good supporting argument would be to say that the potential benefits reaped from medical research in both fields create the promise for cheaper state costs for medical care. Both fields promise treatments for cancer and heart disease.

Bob, good idea, and inspiring. Please join our Coalition to Extend Lifespans team. We work to help C.E.L. lobby the government. We meet thursdays at 3pm cst time, schedule here: imminst.org/meetings Print that schedule out and post it by your computer if you would. We need you there. CEL has got a petition we are promoting, tons of potential, and easy for us as a small team to make big strides with, and we brainstorm and help assign state representatives for the cause of writing letters and all.

[thughes]

If you want to work with that outline then let me know and Ill add you as an editor to the doc. Then when more people come around that are interested in that kind of project, they, or you can use a suggested set of steps for starting up a project like that with this basic formula.

Im not to sure what you mean with blog server stuff and bandwidth but outline its basics in that google doc line 39 and it will take shape. You dont have to keep up with it, you can add just once if you want, and then if you feel like it when you get inspired, Other people will be able to build on to what you add. Thats the beauty of the interactive projects list in the doc and wiki. Anyways, with bandwidth, you could even write in an outline for asking imminst to pay for the extra bandwidth, ad it to the neccessary part and then we or you or me or somebody else can make a proposal or not, after ruminating on it for a bit and building on the rest of the outline.

Sure I can add to the outline. I'm very sporadically around until January now but I will do it as I get time. Drop me mail when I have permissions to edit it.

- Tracy

[thughes]

Remember that the government's money has been taken from the people by force; so when you ask politicians to direct funds to something important to you, you're saying it's okay to force people to pay for something important to you.

Or to call this rose by another name, its ok to require some forms of collective action from all members who benefit from a society. You can only make the 'force' argument in a vacuum. Lifes about balancing obligations. Unfortunately there's no way out because there are no lands without centralized government... I think. Not that I would personally choose to live in one! It would be nice if there was a small country somewhere experimenting with libertarianism so we can all see how/if it works, though. Then you would have a choice what system to live under. But you could choose to live in the amazon jungles I suppose so the force argument may be unfair. Well, life is never fair I guess.

In this case though, it seems almost pointless. The idea isn't popular enough. It needs to have a fair amount of popular support before political action will be effectual. IMO, time is better spent getting popular support and supporting private industry right now. Government time will come. Its a good idea to introduce politicians to the notion maybe, but don't expect results.

- Tracy

[brokenportal]

Remember that the government's money has been taken from the people by force; so when you ask politicians to direct funds to something important to you, you're saying it's okay to force people to pay for something important to you.

Or to call this rose by another name, its ok to require some forms of collective action from all members who benefit from a society. You can only make the 'force' argument in a vacuum. Lifes about balancing obligations. Unfortunately there's no way out because there are no lands without centralized government... I think. Not that I would personally choose to live in one! It would be nice if there was a small country somewhere experimenting with libertarianism so we can all see how/if it works, though. Then you would have a choice what system to live under. But you could choose to live in the amazon jungles I suppose so the force argument may be unfair. Well, life is never fair I guess.

In this case though, it seems almost pointless. The idea isn't popular enough. It needs to have a fair amount of popular support before political action will be effectual. IMO, time is better spent getting popular support and supporting private industry right now. Government time will come. Its a good idea to introduce politicians to the notion maybe, but don't expect results.

- Tracy

They arent "forcing" anybody to do anything unreasonable. If you have neighbors on all sides of you, they arent "forcing" you to be there. Its just what happens when there are a bunch of people they have to go somewhere. People cant live in an area with out rules otherwise people would be outside shooting people at random all the time. So stuff isnt being forced on you, your forcing the stuff on yourself by living by other people, and as the world is becoming more populated, living by other people is becoming a default. Its just what you have to live with. You cant complain about about trees "forcing" you to have leaves dropped on you any more than you can complain about "forcing" you to have rules dropped on you. Right?

Rules are for the betterment of humanity if placed right. You can always argue over the tweaking of the rules though. What we need is a "rule" drafting all people to help with the life extension cause. I think there can and will be one. There is a meeting for the government life extension lobby group, "Coalition to Extend Lifespans" every thursday at 2pm cst 8pm gmt. Thats today in about an hour. Theres a link to it in its topic here: http://www.imminst.o...o...c=23909&hl= One of the primary things we are focusing on is the petition. This will help gain that goverment support all the more faster. And as you all know, time is of the essence. We have none to spare. We need you there now. This is a war, please consider that and join us.

Tracy and anybody interested, send me your email in pm and Ill add you as an editor to the google doc life extension exposure expedition projects. We are thinking about calling it "leeep" for short. Does that work for anybody? Any ideas on that?

[brokenportal]

Im starving for radical life extension convo here, any ideas on this stuff? I have to bump this stuff to get one or two responses a day. If I pay will people respond more? I thought that excellerating returns on life extension progress and potential indefinite life spans was an incentive.

That makes me think... I wonder if we could get something going where we incentivize people to join imminst project teams if we offer them like, supplies of nootropes monthly or something like that.

[brokenportal]

We're building an imminst 300, but first we need to get discussion around here going more, swirling around and captureing imaginations and inspiring people, collecting ideas and resources and getting people all on the same page and ready to go. We can do that by getting more and more people signed up for the 72 team project. Join that today. It talks about the 300 we are building too, and then parallels it to the end scene of the movie that fits in well with an analogy of this topic. Its about the one eyed general and what one eyed generals are able to do. Heres the clip of it:

The spartans did that to help preserve our freedom to build this 300. They gave their lives to help us get to this point, the least we can do is give some time to the upcoming imminst 300 for the next great human struggle, indefinity.

[brokenportal]

We are dying, soon we will all be dead. This life, this carnival of activity that you see going on around you, the U.N. did this, this shows on, this person is elected, this leader died, your family moved here or there, you have a new love interest, your kid is in college, this all seems like its going to go on for a long time, but your going to be erased from the face of existence in no time.

This era, this segment of the history of the planet earth that you indulge in is going to be wiped clean very shortly here. This tech expansion, this pinnicale at the end of such a long drawn out period of human history of suffering and plight, is itself coming to an end. We are going to be wiped off of the face of existence like fruitflies come into existence and are wiped out with the crash of a fist. Your pretty much already dead. That is of course unless we can get this cause for indefinity rolling fast enough. Theres a good chance we can save ourselves.

Around imminst we have a lot of members, a lot of life extensionists, a lot of smart people, ingenuous people, resourceful clever people, we need to discuss this more. Communication is the lifesblood of any cause. Many of us have been trying for a long time to try to figure out how to get more people to discuss the action topics of the cause. Many people needed imminst to give them something to grasp onto, and now there are more things, things are picking up, imminst is helping the heales concert, has the great sunday evening update show and tv channel, has the fah project, the agi undergrad fund, a blog, conferences, leeep, and many other things.

We've also set a few members out to work on developing an active topics split that should help us all keep track of the action, we started the 72 team project which is a list of action topics, join the team and help bump those 72.

But still, even with all these efforts, there is a vaccuum of discussion. There is still room for nuch much more. Probably around 50% of the day you wont see more than 1 or 2 action topics in the active topics section front page. We need the active topics section to be filled with indefinity action discussion. The cause needs you, the world needs you, you need you. We can churn out action just about as fast as we can get together and chat about it. Please do. Please chat in the projects secition, in the 72 team and just about action in general more. The world needs you, now is the time, grab the bulls by the horns, the cause is on its way up. This is the most monumental and rewarding cause ever undertaken in the history of humanity. We can do this, we are doing this and we need all the weight behind this that we can get, it creates momentum, and momentum is disasterous to barriers.

[Shannon Vyff]

Love your enthusiasm and networking skills brokenportal